Micah Muscolino interviews Mary Brazelton, a historian of science, technology and medicine, on mass mobilizations to battle epidemics, medical diplomacy, and vaccines as tools of political control before and after 1949. They discuss the implications of those historical developments on how China and Taiwan managed Covid-19, the current usage of data collection and surveillance in the name of public health, the resistance against compulsory vaccinations, and how the PRC and ROC influence global health policy.