We flagged down a Big Yellow Taxi and rode it all the way to Melbourne to catch copywriter and Joni Mitchell mega-fan, Carolyn Barclay, this week. A stubbornly strategy-first copywriter, Carolyn helps brands sound like actual humans instead of soulless robots sent from the future to bore us to death. She’s also co-founder of Kingswood & Palmerston, a creative consultancy solving marketing puzzles for B2B and making ads for ad agencies. She talks to us on selling cheap suits to men who call them straitjackets, Bob Dylan, writing great copy by studying song writing, outspending versus outsmarting, why ordering ten blogs with a side of social is rarely the right thing to do, Eaon Pritchard, making ads for ad agencies, why rappers are good copywriters, whether AI robots really will take our jobs and a shed load more. ///// Follow Carolyn on Twitter and LinkedIn Check out her website And Kingswood & Palmerston Follow K&P on Twitter and LinkedIn too Here’s David Moore’s collection of Ads for Ad Agencies Carolyn recommends Eaon Pritchard’s Back to Basics course Read Carolyn’s blog “How my failed songwriting career helps me write better copy” When Writing Sings by Gary Provost To Leave Something Behind by Sean Rowe Ads we chat about: …Gasp! Turns 13 Life. Be in it. Slip! Slop! Slap! Backbone by Young & Rubicam TDA Advertising & Design Timestamps (01:45) - Quick fire questions (03:12) - First job selling cheap suits (07:50) - First marketing job organising Avon’s Bargain Bin catalogue (13:51) - Writing great copy by studying song writing (18:46) - Why she’s a stubbornly strategy-first copywriter (23:59) - Kingswood & Palmerston (27:57) - Ads for ad agencies (34:07) - Listener Questions from John Lyons, Louis Lucente, Kate Taylor, and David Moore (34:29) - Why rappers make great copywriters (39:20) - Thoughts on AI copywriting (44:39) - 4 pertinent posers Carolyn’s book recommendations are: Santaland Diaries by David Sedaris Anything by Margaret Atwood Miracle and Wonder: Conversations with Paul Simon by Malcolm Gladwell Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison Junior by Thomas Kemeny /////